Lady Blue Phoenix
A force of nature - Series 1, Episode 6
In this episode of Queers & Co., I’m joined by Lady Blue Phoenix, burlesque performer and member of the Rock with the Foxes troupe. When on stage, she's been described as a force of nature!
We chat about Columbia - the long-forgotten personification of the USA, our power to make social change, creating safer spaces in burlesque, learning to live with mental ill-health and what happens when we can no longer vault our pain away, embracing our shadow side and her experience of coming out as bisexual.
CW: This episode contains a description of a racist incident.
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Find out more about Gem Kennedy and Queers & Co.
Podcast Artwork by Gemma D’Souza
Image by V’s Anchor Studio
Resources
Follow Lady Blue Phoenix on Facebook and Instagram
Lady Blue Phoenix will be performing at the following events:
29th Feb 2020: Lift Every Voice - Black History Month, Gothenburg, Sweden
25th March 2020: The Yes Yes Yes Showcase, Royal Vauxhall Tavern, London, UK
11th July 2020: Woodstock Freedom Festival, Hipley, near Portsmouth, UK
Full Transcription
Gem: Hi Lady Blue.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Hello.
Gem: How are you today?
Lady Blue Phoenix: I'm good. I'm just relaxing after a busy week at work.
Gem: So, we've just been chatting about quite a lot of interesting stuff already actually, so we haven't recorded it. But I've got a few things that I am keen to ask you, but it'd be really cool first if you could introduce yourself so we can learn a bit more about you.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Okay. Well firstly, my name is Lady Blue Phoenix. I originate from Seattle, Washington in America. I've lived abroad now since 2008 - five years in Japan and Oh God… eight years here. I did a lot of dance in the States, so fire belly dance, things like that. I've always loved the dance industry. I'm never actually majored in it, but I just loved that freedom. So when I came to England, after living in Japan for five years, I got into burlesque. Me and my partner went to a show. I saw these amazing people on stage bearing their souls, baring their bodies to the world. And I was literally floored. I was like, I want to do that, but then in the back of my head I had the whole, but I'm not a size zero. None of the girls on this stage were like size zero. Even in my head it was that whole, I have to be small to do it. And my partner, he just kind of looked at me and said, can you please just go ask about it?
Gem: Amazing.
Lady Blue Phoenix: And I asked about it and got involved and have been doing burlesque now since, well 2016, when I decided to start doing solos. Beforehand, the first year and a half I was doing lots of lessons and little bit of troop work and things. But then 2016 I decided to branch out and do solos. And that's how Lady Blue Phoenix was born.
Gem: Amazing. And does your work have any kind of themes or are there specific stories that you tell when you're on stage?
Lady Blue Phoenix: It's a variety. Some of my acts have a story. Some of acts are just me kind of expressing that freedom of movement that you don't get to see in daily life. Some of my acts are just me being free on stage and just showing the world that freedom, but some of my acts or really just showing the confidence that anyone can do it and kind of letting people see that no matter who you are you can do it and it's safe to do it.
Gem: Yeah, it's really powerful to see. I guess if you weren't seeing yourself represented as well when you went to see it, giving that representation to other people who might come along and be empowered to try it themselves?
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah, and that is one of my acts, as I am, it's what I call my neoclassic, cause it's not the classic of burlesque. It's kind of classic with a twist. That act is pretty much, I'm bearing my soul, I'm bearing my confidence, I'm burying, well, I bear everything pretty much. I think that act is pretty much, let's just say it's as close to naked as possible without being naked. But that act was inspired by me just wanting people to realise that everyone has natural beauty in them and that you have to love yourself and it's okay to love yourself. It's okay to show the world that you are confident, that you are powerful, that you love yourself and how you don't hold society standards on yourself, that you don't care what the world thinks, that you're just free and happy to be in your own world and showing that world to everyone.
Gem: Yeah. And you mentioned that when you kind of first saw burlesque, you saw that people were all different sizes, but you were feeling that you weren't a size zero?
Lady Blue Phoenix: That was I think especially when I first started to do it, it was a lack of confidence in myself. Society, media, you know, the stereotypes are you have to be a certain shape and size to do lots of things. And for me it's that this is beautiful. This is beautiful, this is beautiful. This is not. And trying to break that mould in my head, trying to be willing to get through that glass ceiling that's been put on us from the young ages of youth and from when we were little up to the teenage years where you're trying to figure out who you are to then come out the other end of adulthood and be like, okay, so if I want to be beautiful I have to be like this, but I don't want to be like this. I want to be like this, but that's not going to make me beautiful in the eyes of the world. And just coming to terms with it, coming to terms with the fact that no matter what the world says that I am beautiful, you know, I am confident, I am fierce and just wanting to share that bit of me to other people and say, look, if I can do it, you can do it.
Gem: Yeah. And we were talking before about one of your acts that I'd seen kind of an advertised on some of your posters and posts online, and it's called Columbia. It'll be amazing to hear more about that piece. It sounds great.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Columbia, was born out of the lovely political events from 2016 and it was just the angst of watching the world kind of just go in this odd direction from where we've been quite equal, quite kind of like morally sound. If this is wrong, this is wrong. And kind of coming to that whole turnaround of where everyone's equal and seeing it kind of start going backwards for some reason. It was from seeing, obviously Brexit happen and that vote and then it was seeing Trump get elected in America. And I mean, that hit me the hardest because being an American, we always screamed out how America is equal, how you know it's free and how we're able to express ourselves. But then seeing that slowly get taken back over the years kind of just shocked me and I kind of wanted to make people realise that you can't just sit and watch. You can't just sit and be an observer and not do anything because the more we raise our voices and say, look, this is not okay, the more we'll be heard. And I remember sitting in my lounge and thinking to myself, I want to make an act that's going to ring that strength to stage and want to bring an act that's going to hit that message home. And well, there's other statue of Liberty acts out there. There's loads of Trump acts and political acts and things like that. And I said, I want my act to be different. And my partner found out about Columbia who is actually a historical figure who's been forgotten over time.
Gem: Okay. Yeah. I've never heard of Columbia before.
Lady Blue Phoenix: She was before Lady Liberty, Columbia represented America and the truths of America, the justice in America. She fought for those people who were in the minority. Most pictures of Columbia, you see her actually defending people who were the minorities or standing up for women's rights and things. And she was either in armour or in very feminine clothing, but she still looked very fierce and she was an inspiration. And sadly when we hit world war, I think it was two, she disappeared. They got rid of her and it was Lady Liberty and Uncle Sam.
Gem: Do you know why it was that they got rid of her?
Lady Blue Phoenix: There is no actual reason why. I think it's just because obviously Lady Liberty got put in America as this massive statue and obviously people start to associate Lady Liberty with America more so they kind of changed the dialogue.
Gem: That's so funny, isn't it? Because it feels like it's always been that way, but it obviously hasn't.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah. Phillis Wheatley, who was a slave back in the times of slavery wrote about Colombia. There's poems about Colombia, there's songs about Colombia, but in school we learned nothing about her. I didn't even know about her. Columbia is based on her actually coming back to speak to a politician, to make him listen, to make him realise what he's doing is wrong. It's not the American way, it's not the way politically forward, that it's quite corrupt and dark and that instead of doing it, he needs to listen to the voices of the people and the politician ignores her completely. It was very interesting how that came about. Originally I was going to do the act by myself. Then my partner kind of said, you can't, there's no way the message will hit home. You need a villain. And I sat there and I said, well, I don't trust anyone to be a villain. The only person I would trust is you. And he sat there and he's like, well then I'll do it. And so I've done the worst thing ever. I've cast a British person as a villain in a political act. Every time we've performed this piece, we've done it, I think about five or six times now. It moves the audience to either tears or silence and the message hits home. Everyone understands the message by the end of the night. And the thing is, cause I don't want to give too much away. The ending though is not Columbia broken or down or beaten. It's her coming back from what happened in the first bit where he's actually at, to then her saying, you know what? I'm not gonna let that hurt me. I'm not going to let that keep me down. I'm going to come back and stand up and be fierce and keep going forward. But I need everyone in the audience to join me. I need everyone in the audience to agree to come forward with me, to stop this hate, to stop this evil. It's that whole, I can't do it by myself, but I'm willing to lead the way. It ends on that note, and oddly enough, I don't get a full naked strip and that one I actually stripped down to a tank top and some utility trousers or utility shorts. And it's the whole, looking at the audience and it kind of making them realise, you can help me stop this. You can stop this. You have the power. And giving them that power and that knowledge in hopes that they'll use it.
Gem: Yeah. So powerful. I've got goosebumps just hearing that. It sounds amazing. So because your work or certainly some of it at least sounds really political. I just wondered, I know you said that some people are maybe a bit reluctant to book that act because of how powerful it is, how do you kind of navigate doing such powerful work and also looking after yourself at the same time?
Lady Blue Phoenix: Well, usually when I do get a booking for Columbia, I do try to pair it up with one of my less political acts. So I will do my classic act, which is kind of seen as a very body positive, very, you know, standard burlesque act. Or I will do it with my mad hatter act which is called 'Fractured Imagination' which I use LED play. But again, that one touches on a bit of the mental health battle of going from this. "I'm so happy" to inside- I'm in turmoil, but I'm fighting it off. I usually take care of myself by just meditating, especially after Columbia. I will go and take a few minutes to breathe to get some air to just relax from it because it is such a hard hitting act. But what we've also decided , as this is a duet, me and my partner, have decided and it's great idea, that we are actually going to start advertising and tell producers, Hey, if you book one of my acts and you let me bring Columbia, half the fee that I get, if not the majority of the fee that I get will go towards the charity 'Hope not Hate' because that's how much we want to get this message out. Because it sounds sad but with the rise of social media and stuff and the rise of the white right wing thoughts and everything else, we need more people to be aware that they can help stop this kind of rise. They can stop this hate.
Gem: Yeah. I think people feel so powerless, don't they?
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah, and the act does point that out. I mean the act points out the whole, you feel powerless but you're not. You can do something.
Gem: Yeah, and I'm wondering where you find all of that power? You're giving your power away to these rooms of people, showing them that they need to make a difference and they can stand up and make a change. Where do you get your power from?
Lady Blue Phoenix: I get my power from a lot of the experiences I've been through in life. I mean being black American, you kind of at an early age sadly realise that you are different and that those differences be played up to you. Those differences will be tested and how you deal with them is going to decide your path in life. And I come from a military family and my dad, bless his heart, he helped embed in me a lot of power. He helped embed in me the whole, you know, there are people who are going to treat you wrong but pay them no mind. Instead pay mind to the people who are going to be there to have your back. Who are going to be your voice when you don't feel like you have one. Who are going to be there for you and support you when you do have a voice, when you do have your strength. I have this collective community of friends in burlesque. Like I just became a member of the 'rocks with foxes' troop and they're an amazing group of ladies. I've been performing with them on and off since, 2016, at different shows and events. And they asked me last year to join and become an actual troop member. And I've been with them now since December. And honestly, I couldn't ask for a better group of girls. We had an incident recently, which kind of made me realise how the community is really trying to work around how to be good allies. Cause there are some people who do want to be allies to the community. They just don't know how, it's not explained, it's not talked about and such. And the incident we had was we had just finished performing a show and we went out, packed the car up, we're going to go back and have a few drinks and such. And the troop leader went in and came out and said, I'm not gonna let you go back into a place where someone's doing blackface. And I looked at her stunned and I said, what are you talking about? Because we had seen a gentleman earlier who was dressed as prince, not in blackface. I was totally down for that. I was like, ah, yeah, you look awesome and I'm loving it. And I saw another guy come in who looks like a guy from the blues brothers, James Brown character from the blues brothers movie. And I'm like, Oh, that looks good again. He did really well. I can see him as that character. And sadly it was him who decided to go into the bathroom and black up. The troop leader. Madeline Solei, bless her heart, she pointed out to the security guard. The security guard went in and talked to him. We went in cause it was cold and he kinda just looked at me sideways and I kind of looked at Madeline and my husband was there at time. I said, I'm going to go talk to him. And they were in shock. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, I'm going to go ask him why he did it. Cause these are conversations that people don't have sometimes and I think it's important that we ask people, look, what was your reasoning for doing this? Because sometimes when you get that reason, it's still explained to them, well the one that was a good reason, it's still kind of wrong. And do you see how it's, how it can affect me sometimes that's the best way to tell people versus the screaming, the yelling, the "Oh my God, it's wrong!" Being kind of neutral versus combat it as all right. So I talked to him and he explained to me why and said, James Brown is his idol. And I said, well that's great. But when you walked in the door the first time, I understood who you were. You didn't have to do this to yourself. And he understood and he left. No fights, no nothing. He understood and left the pub. His friends, however, did not. Immediately after he left, I was ganged up on, I was called racist. I was called "the problem of this country are people like you because it's people like you who are too overly sensitive about thing". "It's a costume, get over it" "If you walked around in white face, we wouldn't care" "There's reverse racism" blah blah blah. And the other thing that got me was the woman who's birthday is, because she was having her 40th, I explained it to her and she understood. So she then tried to explain it to the friends and it wasn't working. It got to the point where I had 30 people screaming at me and telling me how horrible the wrong guy was even though I wasn't the one who reported it. My troop leader reported it, yet, she was also standing there telling them all saying, I'm the one who reported it, why you ganging up on her? I'm the one who said something, stop yelling at her, yell at me, but I find it offensive and so does the pub. Eventually we just left and I ended up bumping into two gentlemen who were by the door who I think are from middle Eastern descent, not sure. And one of the guys, He's like, can I give you a hug? Because honestly what you've just done and dealt with there was very brave. I wanted to say something, but I was too scared to, and you said something, and it's sad because we teach in schools now how things like this are wrong. People know this is wrong.
Gem: It's also all over the news. It's not uncommon knowledge. Right?
Lady Blue Phoenix: It's not, and that's the thing that scares me is, we suddenly have had this rise of people doing things that we've known since like the 1970s even earlier, is wrong. But they're still doing it. It's like we had a moment of, in the two thousands from the 70s till about maybe 2010 or give or take where it stopped. It wasn't a thing. Well, not as much of a thing, but now it's back full force. And I'm kind of confused.
Gem: Yeah. Well, I guess I just want to say I'm really sorry that that happened to you, first of all because that sounds utterly shit and it's interesting that even the person who did it actually went home and it was the other people who were so offended by other people who were objecting to blackface. And it feels frustrating that you're doing such intensive and demanding political work and then you're still faced with that your private life that you're having to, I guess navigate that. That must be really exhausting?
Lady Blue Phoenix: It is a bit, I mean, my partner being a non-person of colour and me being a person of colour. It can be. We do sometimes get some looks and stuff and we deal with it, but it's at this point of where it's like, can we all just forget skin colour for a decade? I mean, no one's born inherently racist. They're taught this and we need to start teaching people, teaching each other, how to just love one another. Like we all get along. We all bleed the same colour. But instead of being put against each other, which I'm starting to realise is the common thing that is happening nowadays, we need to join together and stop falling for the same tricks. We need to stop falling for the same dialogue that's being put towards us of - this group is at fault. No, no, no. It's this group. No, it's this religion. No, no, no. It's this sexual orientation. No, no, no. It's this side. People who identify like this. No, it's this. And instead of agreeing with that dialogue and following that dialogue, we need to make our own dialogue and say, look, actually it's none of those groups. It's you. And it's the dialogue that we're being fed by the media.
Gem: Yeah. And the fact that people say, "Oh, I have a friend who's black" or "I have a friend who is Asian. I can't be racist." Or you know, all those kinds of things. People come at you with those counter arguments. And actually it's not about saying that a person necessarily is racist, even though they are in that situation displaying racist behaviour, the system is racist. And the way that we're brought up is racist and white supremacy is a real thing. Right. And until you actually look at that and get rid of the shit, that there's, you know, "I have a friend who's black, I can't be racist" or whatever it is. Until people actually are willing to take a look at the system, then nothing will change.
Lady Blue Phoenix: No. And it's funny that you say that because again, Again, when Brexit happened, I ended up losing at least 20 friends because of just the content they were sharing and everything else. And I remember an argument with one of my friends say, well, they put up a post about how all immigrants need to leave and blah, blah, blah, blah, how they can be happy about it. And I messaged them and I said, you know how offensive that post is to me? I live here. They were like "yeah, but you're not an immigrant" I'm like, well, technically I am. I've moved from America here. I immigrated here. I had to go through immigration and all this other stuff. So technically, yeah, I am an immigrant. "Oh no, no, no" they kind of said "everyone, but you, you're one of the good ones" And I just sat there. I'm like, but that's still wrong. Do you see how that's wrong? "No, no, no, no, no. But you're not from like the underclass countries that there.." I'm like, but it doesn't matter.
Gem: Yeah. And this whole division between like first world and third world, you know, that's also messed up. I wanted to swear but I'll resist.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Oh, swear away.
Gem: I realised we hadn't had that conversation. Okay. That's completely fucked up. Like it's not an actual thing. And even the fact that people see things that way, again, white supremacy, right?
Lady Blue Phoenix: Honestly, it's fucking nonsense. Like, these class divisions that we have, these fucking ideologies of, I'm better than you because I have more money or I'm more educated and you're not educated. It doesn't matter. Like we need to stop letting those divisions, that dialogue, be replayed everywhere, from the burlesque industry to modern day industry to everywhere, and realise that the way we're going to be able to band together to make this planet a better place is to just realise that we all have things in common. Yes. I mean I've gone to Harvard not anywhere else. Yes. I'll be upper-class on things, but it doesn't matter because, at the end of the day, we may like the same shows. We may like the same music, same bands, same food. Everyone has something in common with everybody else and until we see that and let go of these divisions, the world's going to be fucked. I mean, the other thing especially right now, I will say the one thing that I'm really enjoying is, especially in community in general, is the support that is being displayed. There's been obviously cultural appropriation, there's been pronouns being used wrongly, things like that. And it's good when you have performers banding together to stand behind another performer and say "actually, hello, that's wrong" "Hey, that's not the right pronoun to use. Please use this one. This is how they identify" And it's good to see that is such a very diverse and mixed community that there are pockets in the community that are slowly expanding to help change the dialogue.
Gem: Yeah. And hopefully the more people that do that, the more it ripples out. Right. And I'm just thinking of pronouns in particular. A lot of trans activists will ask cis people to add their pronouns after their name, on Facebook profiles and all different places because the more it's out there, the more commonly known of it will be, and people will be more prepared to ask what people's pronouns are. So I guess it's like that ripple effect where you've got these small communities and I guess in a way, like obviously not all of burlesque is queer, but I guess like these small pockets of community that have more, people who are marginalised and people who kind of gather in those communities because they feel much safer, and then hopefully it will ripple out to the broader community.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Exactly. I've performed many queer friendly venues and things like that and I do get asked, well, what are your pronouns, I use she/her, and this year, and last year and the year before, I've had a really bad three years. But I've become more comfortable in myself and my identity and such and yeah, I use she/her. Yeah. I've admit to some of my fellow performers that I am actually, Bi, I told my husband, he was quite like, that's cool. I'm all for that support. And it's just seeing that support come out and knowing that you're safe and it's knowing that producers of shows now are asking performers who are marginalised, who are underrepresented, before the show. "How can I make you safe?" "What notes, what things? How am I going to be able to make you feel comfortable as a performer?" And actually abiding by those and ensuring that while people are at the venue, while they're at the show, while the audience are there, they are safe. Their performers are safe, the performers are coming before the audience now. Whereas it used to be kind of the other way around. But also just the general support for mental health. Mental health is a big one now that again, slowly coming to the surface more and more now that a lot of people have mental health problems and they're not always comfortable talking to everyone about it. But in the community, especially the burlesque community, there is massive amounts of support and love. You know, and people help people. It's like if you're feeling low or down, people pick up on that and first pick up on that and they do what they can. Especially if you're at a show to help you actually feel comfortable. You know, some of my closest burlesque friends, like, last year was a dark year for me. I got diagnosed with anxiety and depression, severe anxiety and depression and I didn't perform for a good three months. I took a three month hiatus and the support I got, the messages I got, the love that was shown has helped me realise that, you know, I'm not alone. And that's the big thing that some people need in their lives. They need to realise that their not alone. That there are people who are out there who are either similar or have been there that are willing to help you.
Gem: Yeah. And it's accessing those communities, isn't it? Because if you're safe, you live in a very conservative area where mental health isn't really discussed. You can feel very alone. But I guess accessing places where mental health is talked about, and that may just be online , some people aren't able to find those kinds of local, physical people, but yeah, it is incredibly important.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah. And I think that's the one thing that I'm enjoying the most about burlesque is how it's the whole, you know, community feel of, I may be this and this, I may be a producer, a performer or something, but at the end of the day I'm still a friend and I'm still going to talk to people and people are still wanting to talk to me and things and we're willing to have the discussion of, well, how are you feeling? And things like that. And there's people out there who are happy to do that for each other. And it's nice to hear that someone is going through that journey that they may need help. And it's always nice to know that you can reach out and say, "Hey, I'm feeling a bit low today. Can I talk to somebody?" And having someone say, "Yeah, message me"
Gem: Yeah. Something I really like as well. So my guest Chiron talked about it last week I think, was the idea of having people that you message in times where you need to talk to someone, but they're aware that you've messaged other people at the same time. So maybe you have, I don't know, like a circle of six people that you message when you're needing support and the idea of them knowing that you haven't messaged only them, you're not only expecting them to support you at that moment. So they can say no, they can say "I'll be free later" but also there are other people that can respond I think is such a powerful way of doing it because quite often we're conscious of not putting too much on to one person. You know, if we have one friend that we might talk to about things, obviously if you only have that one friend and that's, that's really tough. But if you have more, being able to kind of share that, like Chiron calls it 'collective care', being able to share that amongst your community and have that support. Is it a great and really helpful thing to have.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah and it is seen. I mean if it's not online then again, even at shows, I mean I after the three month hiatus I went back to performance such a lot of people were aware that I may have a bit of anxiety, I may be a little bit scared, a bit low in confidence and they were always like, "Hey do you need anything? Do you need some help?" And it's good that people are able to sense and read that cause it makes it even more of a safer space. I think that's the big thing right now is a lot of producers are trying to make their shows safer spaces for performers who are again, marginalised, who are under-represented. And it's a good thing. And I do think that the more that the conversations get out there, the more that that dialogue is out there, the more that allies are willing to put themselves on the line and not speak for us, but speak up and say, look, as a person, I know that's wrong and that is wrong and you shouldn't be doing that. It's more empowering than I think people who sit there and just say nothing.
Gem: Oh, absolutely. There are so many reasons why people say nothing, but essentially nothing changes if everyone just sits around and keeps to their own business, right?
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yes, and that is true. I mean, the best way I could put it is if everyone just sat and watched the world like we do with TV and everything else. The world would be a darker place, but if everyone instead of sitting and watching spoke up, changes would happen. Those who are in the majority power need to start speaking up more and supporting those of us who are marginalised. It's one of those things I've had to come to realise is onstage, it's a funny story actually, onstage, I've been told that my character who I displayed doesn't seem to have a gender, it's quite gender fluid, but more or less it's a force of nature. But if we all took the personas that we display on stage and brought back even 25% of that into our daily life, that would start to help the change.
Gem: So, this idea that maybe everyone should be performing because then they'll connect with it a more powerful version of themselves.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yes. And that is true.
Gem: So, what's next for you? You have obviously lots of events coming up. I'd imagine, I know you mentioned that you started in your day job as well. So what's next?
Lady Blue Phoenix: I'm going to the garden of Eden's black history month show and I'm performing my classic acts there, which I'm very excited for. After that I'm doing another show. I'm doing another show in April and then I have some shows coming in July. I more or less, I think this year I'm going to focus more on doing more acts that make people think. I've kind of done a lot of my acts I have or a bit more, well minus Columbia, or a bit more of the kind of safe , not say style, I want to say, but standard style of burlesque. But now I've got to this point in my career where, you know Columbia being my first political act and the response to it. I'm at this point where I kind of want to change the dialogue of performances and kind of touch more on ideas for acts that do kind of show more messages that kind of share messages of - this is what everyone has or this is what you can help, this is what you know people deal with secretly that you don't see, and kind of touch on people, make them realise, actually I go through that in life too and it's good to see it on stage. I kind of want to do more representation on stage of groups that are marginalised, I'm already am plus size and person of colour and queer person of colour now. But I want to also touch on ideas of, mental health. Cause I've struggled with that and I want to show that evolution that you can go through, but that even though, dare I say, you get a space where you're better, it's not, it doesn't go away. But you just have to know how to deal with it and what your triggers are and be prepared for it when it comes again.
Gem: Yeah, absolutely. And well, learning to live with it rather than waiting for it to go away because it's something that potentially will come and go.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeh. It's there. And I know a lot of people who suffer with it and I know a lot of people who, especially when I was going through it, I was called a high functioning person with mental health, and I know that my friends, like a lot of people I knew were like, but I would never think that about you. It's like, yeah, but I have it.
Gem: Yeah. That's the point of it. Right. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there
Lady Blue Phoenix: And that's the point. It's like I want a lot of my acts now are going to be more, those hidden sides of people that, "Oh yeah, I have that side too and maybe I need to either express it more or show it or become more comfortable with that side" and accepting of it because there's always, dare I say this, I think everyone kind of has a side of them that we kind of always want to fight off for not accept or detach ourselves from. Sometimes that detachment is the struggle that you fight daily. If we stopped attaching ourselves from it and said, okay, I'm willing to accept that side and I'm going to walk hand in hand with it and learn from it and bring it into me more.
Gem: Yeah. Understanding that there are different parts of us that we may not like, but accepting them. You know, everyone has a shadow side as well, for example. Everyone has that. You can't get away from it. And there's a lot of work, quite an interesting body of work around the fact that we live so detached, like in such a detached way from our shadow side is what's created a lot of these kind of bigger things to rise up. Because people are just in denial that there is kind of bad stuff in the world or they pretend that they're fully good and that's just not the case.
Lady Blue Phoenix: There is an exhibit at the Wellcome museum. I'm trying to find it cause there was an amazing quote that I saw there. It's going to take me a decade to find this quote. But it is true. We do try to detach ourselves. And I think the one thing that I've learned is you have to be able to love yourself and you have to be able to just be comfortable with you because once you love yourself and you're comfortable with you, you're comfortable with who you are as a person. Sometimes it's the best thing ever.
Gem: Yeah. And that can be messy. Like, it's okay that, just like we love other people who have complex parts and you know, inverted commas "floors". It's not necessarily loving a perfect person. We're loving someone as they are in their entirety with all their difficult shadow-ey as well, you know, going on in the background that no one talks about.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah. And that is very true. And that's what we need to do more of instead of denying that side and doing the whole, no, no, no, I'm going to push that side away. That side doesn't exist. I don't have it. We need to just accept it and we need to give ourselves permission to accept it. But also to be us. I mean, we need to stop denying ourselves the ability to be who we are.
Gem: And how has that been for you kind of recently coming out as being Bi? What has that experience been? Is it embracing another part of you?
Lady Blue Phoenix: It has been embracing a part of me that I've kept away for ages. I went through a bit of a traumatic experience last year and kind of ended up doing a lot of soul searching and a lot of self-evaluation and things. And through all the lovely therapy I was getting to help me with my depression, anxiety and the realisation that I, I used to do one thing, with events in my life and I now realise that I can't do it anymore. I used to do what I would call vaulting it. I think a lot of people may do this or they don't like to admit that they do this, but you have something happened to you, be it traumatic or shocking or something. And instead of feeling those feelings and dealing with it, you volt it and you forget about it. You push it away, you push it out of your mind, you push it back into the far reaches of your mind, of your psyche and you lock it away behind this door. And I was getting through life doing that for quite a long time. For the whole, Oh gosh, 30 years of it. And it's just something I've learned to do. It was the experience that I went through made me realise that I couldn't volt it away. It wasn't working. Yeah. And I went to counselling to realise that it was okay to not volt stuff, that I myself needed to start to come to terms with my shadow side and I needed to accept me as me and I need to stop being frightened of who I am as a person and kind of love myself a bit more. Not be scared of rejection, not be scared of the world and what society may think that I need to accept me more than society needs to accept at me and so coming out, especially to my husband, I mean we've been together for 12 years. He just sat there. He was like "that's fine" and I was in shock. I was kind of like, you're not upset. And he's like, no, like you're not scared. He's like, no. He's like, I love you no matter what you are, and I'm all right with that.
Gem: That's incredible. That must have been such a relief because it sounds like you were really dreading it?
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah. And this is the thing is we all need to sometimes do this. We need to realise that it's okay to be us even if it's showing a bit of that shadow side that we have to the world. And if you're scared of you, then how do you expect the world to not be scared of you?
Gem: Yeah. And that just makes me think when you were talking about the vaulting things away, it makes me imagine like an under stairs cupboard for example. And every time something happens you just like shove a box in the under stairs cupboard and you keep putting things in and then the doors like getting a bit rickety so you maybe like lean something up against it, keep putting stuff in, the doors starting to wobble a bit. And then all of a sudden, one day when you're not necessarily expecting it because it's been closed for ages. The door falls over and it all pours out. And that is what happens to so many people when they just have been taught that kind of coping mechanism, which I think often a lot of people are taught that as children as well. Like, Oh, forget about it. It doesn't matter. Put it away and think about it another day and you never return to it. It's just piling up in the background.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yes, yes. And that's very true. I found the quote I saw at the museum and it says "illness is the night-side of life, a more onerous citizenship. Everyone who is born holds dual citizenship, in the kingdom of the well and in the kingdom of the sick. Although we all prefer to use only the good passport, sooner or later each of us is obliged, at least for a spell, to identify ourselves as citizens of that other place" And that was by Susan Sontag, 'illnesses a metaphor' 1978, and it's so true.
Gem: I was talking to another guest yesterday around health privilege and it's not something that we can escape. And until we don't have health privilege anymore, we don't realise how important and how lucky we are to have it right?
Lady Blue Phoenix: Yeah, And again, coming from American, health privilege has been great being here because I don't think I would have the same amount of support like institutional wise and everything else and the therapy and stuff that I would back at home because, we have to pay for most of everything, and it's good to see that there are options here to help. But then again, going back to the community, it's also good to see that there's a community here to help. And I think that's what we need more of. We need more support for the communities.
Gem: Yeah, absolutely. And just sharing stories. A lot of my work is just around talking about stuff and people understanding that there is a shared experience rather than feeling that they're alone. And that's huge isn't it? Just to know that you're not the only person that, for example, has struggled with body image or has struggled with, finding out they're queer or whatever it is. Knowing that it's not me who's going through it alone is just so powerful.
Lady Blue Phoenix: Touching on the body image. Burlesque gave me my confidence to accept my body. And if it wasn't for burlesque, I would probably not be the person I am today because I would have follow the standard dialogue of being, smaller is beautiful versus a lot of dialogue I follow now, which is everything's beautiful.
Gem: So, I'm conscious that we're coming towards the end of our time together and I just wondered if there's anything that you'd like to plug? We've talked about a few events and we'll definitely post those on the show notes and also online. Is there anything else?
Lady Blue Phoenix: The only thing I would plug. Yes, I may have shows and stuff coming up. But the best thing that anyone who's a listener can do is to support this burlesque community. Be it the small community or the large community. Go out and see the shows, buy those tickets, go out and be a part of the community, be an audience member or a performer or just helping out in general or even just sharing the events across the board. Even if you're not going, especially now with the new Facebook algorithms and stuff like that, you know, show your support somehow. Because right now especially there is that struggle sometimes of shows either being cancelled because not enough tickets have been sold. Share the support in love, because it's a thriving community. It's making a revival. Let's keep that revival going, but also let's get a revival that's coming back, and be one that we would be proud to keep going. Let's make that revival become a safe space for everybody and show the world that the community, the burlesque community, is safe, is more or less accepting and actually show it. Don't just talk the talk, but talk the talk and walk the walk. If you're going to say, "I'm going to make this a safe space for people" then make sure it's a safe space for every last single person there. Ensure that you don't book acts that are questionable. Be sure that you indeed use the right pronouns. You know? Be sure that there's not any body objectification or things like that. Be conscious of these things and make sure that your audience understands that too.
Gem: Yeah, that's a great thing to end with. Thank you.
Lady Blue Phoenix: You're very welcome.
Gem: Thanks so much for your time Lady Blue, it's been brilliant talking to you.
Lady Blue Phoenix: It's been amazing talking to you Gem and hopefully we will meet in person soon.
Gem: Thank you.
Lady Blue Phoenix: You're welcome.